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AnRM

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Message 4780 - Posted: 25 Jan 2008, 20:34:45 UTC

Just a \'heads up\' for those who are using older BOINC clients...we had some difficulty reattaching to C@H...had to update to to new BOINC client 5.10.30 before some machines recognized the new project URL. We received error messages that inducated that the C@H was not a BOINC project with the older versions of BOINC ie 5.10.13 etc.....Cheers, Rog.
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Message 4785 - Posted: 25 Jan 2008, 21:08:00 UTC - in response to Message 4780.  

Just a \'heads up\' for those who are using older BOINC clients...we had some difficulty reattaching to C@H...had to update to to new BOINC client 5.10.30 before some machines recognized the new project URL. We received error messages that inducated that the C@H was not a BOINC project with the older versions of BOINC ie 5.10.13 etc.....Cheers, Rog.


Define \"older\"? I\'m using 5.8.16 and had no problems...
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Message 4786 - Posted: 25 Jan 2008, 21:33:29 UTC - in response to Message 4785.  

Just a \'heads up\' for those who are using older BOINC clients...we had some difficulty reattaching to C@H...had to update to to new BOINC client 5.10.30 before some machines recognized the new project URL. We received error messages that inducated that the C@H was not a BOINC project with the older versions of BOINC ie 5.10.13 etc.....Cheers, Rog.


Define \"older\"? I\'m using 5.8.16 and had no problems...


I believe I indicated that it was a quirk on \'some\' of our machines with older versions of BOINC, not all.....Cheers, Rog.
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Message 4788 - Posted: 25 Jan 2008, 22:05:15 UTC - in response to Message 4786.  

Just a \'heads up\' for those who are using older BOINC clients...we had some difficulty reattaching to C@H...had to update to to new BOINC client 5.10.30 before some machines recognized the new project URL. We received error messages that inducated that the C@H was not a BOINC project with the older versions of BOINC ie 5.10.13 etc.....Cheers, Rog.


Define \"older\"? I\'m using 5.8.16 and had no problems...


I believe I indicated that it was a quirk on \'some\' of our machines with older versions of BOINC, not all.....Cheers, Rog.


So you had some machines back in the 5.10.13 range that worked fine and then others also on 5.10.13 that did not?

Could you at least mention what you saw when it did not recognize the URL? The reason I\'m asking is that I attached both ways, with and without the www on the front... Both ways worked fine... Is it possible that the machines that had problems used a different DNS?
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Message 4795 - Posted: 25 Jan 2008, 23:10:44 UTC - in response to Message 4788.  
Last modified: 25 Jan 2008, 23:13:13 UTC

Could you at least mention what you saw when it did not recognize the URL? The reason I\'m asking is that I attached both ways, with and without the www on the front... Both ways worked fine... Is it possible that the machines that had problems used a different DNS?[/quote]

Here\'s some more info for what it\'s worth...all boxes used BOINC 5.10.13. Using URL \'www.....org\' all boxes attached ok but when BOINC attempted to download the first WUs we received \'error 403\' messages. Using URL \'http//.....org\' to reattach the same boxes, we could not attach and received \'The URL is not that of a BOINC based project.... etc\' message ie no joy there either. So...the upgrade to BOINC 5.10.30 was done and using the \'www......org\' URL to attach, everything seems to be processing fine. Of the dozen or so boxes done so far, only one using BOINC
5.10.13 worked ok with the \'www....org\' URL. Go figure. We\'ve decided to upgrade all boxes to BOINC 5.10.30 as the upgrades are overdue anyway....Cheers, Rog.
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Message 4797 - Posted: 25 Jan 2008, 23:17:07 UTC - in response to Message 4795.  
Last modified: 25 Jan 2008, 23:19:16 UTC

We\'ve decided to upgrade all boxes to BOINC 5.10.30 as the upgrades are overdue anyway....


Thanks for the description of what happened... A 403 is \"forbidden\", so apparently there was some issue with credentials / permissions. It would be strange if an application update fixed that, as the fix should, in theory, be on the web server...

Anyway, I disagree about any 5.10.xx version being an \"upgrade\". It might be an \"update\", but, IMO, 5.10.xx has so many bugs that keep cropping up from version to version. Jord (Ageless) appears to have discovered another bug in the past 24 hours over at Einstein@Home with the way BOINC is handling the new \"graphics in a separate thread\" capability with the new BOINC APIv6 implementation. He tried a 6.x.x alpha version of BOINC and someone else had a 5.10.xx version and they both saw heavy CPU usage when the graphics thread was shown, but my \"old faithful\" BOINC version of 5.8.16 handles it without any significant additional CPU load...

IMO, 5.10.xx and higher == \"buggy\"
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Message 4801 - Posted: 25 Jan 2008, 23:50:48 UTC - in response to Message 4797.  

Jord (Ageless) appears to have discovered another bug in the past 24 hours over at Einstein@Home with the way BOINC is handling the new \"graphics in a separate thread\" capability with the new BOINC APIv6 implementation. He tried a 6.x.x alpha version of BOINC

Someone had to. No-one else had done it yet. :-)
Einstein is one of the first projects to test a 6 compliant application.
and someone else had a 5.10.xx version and they both saw heavy CPU usage when the graphics thread was shown, but my \"old faithful\" BOINC version of 5.8.16 handles it without any significant additional CPU load...

IMO, 5.10.xx and higher == \"buggy\"

Not necessarily. What you have to add to that is that Kathryn is using on-board graphics on her laptop, not an external AGP or PCIe video card with lots of DDR3 memory, like you do.

Even I am using my on-board video chip at this moment, as my card has two blown capacitors. I\'m in the process of replacing them, see if that fixes it.

The one thing that the graphics application at Einstein should do though is use less CPU cycles. So that\'s not a BOINC bug, but an application bug. :-)
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Message 4808 - Posted: 26 Jan 2008, 0:28:27 UTC - in response to Message 4801.  


IMO, 5.10.xx and higher == \"buggy\"

Not necessarily.


Well, when the installation process blew up on me and I had to reinstall 5.8.16, including 2 \"repair-mode\" installs, I tend to shy away from something like that...

What you have to add to that is that Kathryn is using on-board graphics on her laptop, not an external AGP or PCIe video card with lots of DDR3 memory, like you do.


The graphics there are so minimal that it should not be a problem for the onboard chip, however I will grant you that my discreet card is several orders of magnitude better than her onboard video, despite the fact that my card is over 3 years old (6800GT, built for a cheaper alternative for Doom3\'s best performing card at launch, the 6800 Ultra / Ultra Extreme)...


Even I am using my on-board video chip at this moment, as my card has two blown capacitors. I\'m in the process of replacing them, see if that fixes it.

The one thing that the graphics application at Einstein should do though is use less CPU cycles. So that\'s not a BOINC bug, but an application bug. :-)


It will indeed be interesting to see if that takes care of it. My point here is that a suggestion to upgrade may or may not actually be needed, which is why I was trying to glean more information about the situation experienced by AnRM.



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Message 4811 - Posted: 26 Jan 2008, 0:40:33 UTC - in response to Message 4808.  

The graphics there are so minimal that it should not be a problem for the onboard chip, however I will grant you that my discreet card is several orders of magnitude better than her onboard video, despite the fact that my card is over 3 years old (6800GT, built for a cheaper alternative for Doom3\'s best performing card at launch, the 6800 Ultra / Ultra Extreme)...

The graphics on any project may be minimal, but they need good OpenGL support from the graphics processor. This is minimal on any IGP, as although they may have their own graphics chip these days, they still use the CPU and the system memory to render complex graphics.

Although I wouldn\'t call a rotating sphere showing all the constellations in their correct place to my timezone minimal graphics.

My S3 graphics chip only has an OpenGL wrapper. Meaning that it is my CPU taking care of the OGL rendering. Any OpenGL graphics performance is best counted in frames per minute, instead of frames per second. ;-)

My point here is that a suggestion to upgrade may or may not actually be needed

Eventually everyone should use BOINC 6. Or 7. Or 8.
There\'s no holding back on progress, even if that means I have to reformat and install Windows XP Corp and you have to reformat to get 5.10 working. :-D
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Message 4817 - Posted: 26 Jan 2008, 1:39:22 UTC - in response to Message 4811.  
Last modified: 26 Jan 2008, 1:39:38 UTC

This is minimal on any IGP, as although they may have their own graphics chip these days, they still use the CPU and the system memory to render complex graphics.

Although I wouldn\'t call a rotating sphere showing all the constellations in their correct place to my timezone minimal graphics.


Perhaps as prerequisite to the graphics app running, a \"graphics benchmark\" is performed. If the benchmark doesn\'t show sufficient scores, graphics are disabled.

My point here is that a suggestion to upgrade may or may not actually be needed

Eventually everyone should use BOINC 6. Or 7. Or 8.
There\'s no holding back on progress, even if that means I have to reformat and install Windows XP Corp and you have to reformat to get 5.10 working. :-D


Maybe someone could strive towards fixing the curl \"problem\" or finding an alternative to curl rather than trying to get us surly folks to socialize...


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Message 4820 - Posted: 26 Jan 2008, 1:50:09 UTC - in response to Message 4817.  
Last modified: 26 Jan 2008, 1:51:56 UTC

Maybe someone could strive towards fixing the curl \"problem\" or finding an alternative to curl rather than trying to get us surly folks to socialize...

Libcurl and the therein lying problem with NTLM proxies, should be fixed by Curl.

I like your benchmarks for graphics idea though. Will ask if that\'s possible. The Graphics card used is already detected by BOINC and the information about it written into your client_state.xml file. Let\'s hope, at least, it doesn\'t let BOINC depend on yet another breakable 3rd party open source part. ;-)

Not that CPU benchmarks work that good either, but hush.

I think we\'ve hijacked this thread enough by now. Unless AnRM doesn\'t mind. Progression of information.
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Message 4827 - Posted: 26 Jan 2008, 2:20:40 UTC

Not at all.....always intresting reading/information.....Cheers, Rog.
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Message 4829 - Posted: 26 Jan 2008, 2:25:50 UTC - in response to Message 4820.  
Last modified: 26 Jan 2008, 2:33:33 UTC


I like your benchmarks for graphics idea though. Will ask if that\'s possible. The Graphics card used is already detected by BOINC and the information about it written into your client_state.xml file. Let\'s hope, at least, it doesn\'t let BOINC depend on yet another breakable 3rd party open source part. ;-)

Not that CPU benchmarks work that good either, but hush.


Hmmm... The graphics benchmark wouldn\'t be used for credits, so I don\'t see any incentive for \"cheating\" it...although I suppose if it were in the xml files, it could be manipulated...

Oh, and there\'d need to be multiple xml entries, such as one <graphics_enabled> tag pair for each project, as the requirements would vary by project. IOW, the BOINC-specific XML would be:

<graphics_enabled>1</graphics_enabled>

...but the individual project\'s graphics application would be responsible for setting its own internal score threshold as to what level is high enough for acceptable performance with graphics enabled. The graphics application would then pass the value back to BOINC and BOINC would set the value. If the value was 0 (disabled), then the project\'s graphics executable would then do cleanup and close itself down.
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Message 4830 - Posted: 26 Jan 2008, 2:33:56 UTC - in response to Message 4829.  

Eventually, perhaps, maybe, possibly, BOINC will also allow applications to use the GPU. It would be nice to know what the GPU is capable of doing then.

Then again, by that time all projects will have some other form of granting credits. (Let\'s not continue the credits discussion here though. :-))

I\'ll keep you informed through this thread on any answer I get on the proposal. Now off to watch some Star Trek: TNG and then after that to bed.
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Message 4834 - Posted: 26 Jan 2008, 9:46:07 UTC

No wonder my ears were burning... I (or my crappy graphics hardware) was being talked about :-)



(also sorry for the derail... will go back into lurk mode)
Kathryn :o)
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Message 4836 - Posted: 26 Jan 2008, 11:44:23 UTC - in response to Message 4834.  

No wonder my ears were burning... I (or my crappy graphics hardware) was being talked about :-)



(also sorry for the derail... will go back into lurk mode)


Ah, but it was a productive derail... ;-)
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Message 4838 - Posted: 26 Jan 2008, 13:43:29 UTC
Last modified: 26 Jan 2008, 13:45:24 UTC

Yes, it was an interesting hijacked discussion :) ....all our boxes are attached to \'http//...org\' with BOINC 5.10.30 in place and are crunching happily 50/50 with WCG at present ie. our reattachment problems have been resolved :) .....Cheers, Rog. Hope Scott got some rest...
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Message 4877 - Posted: 29 Jan 2008, 13:04:16 UTC - in response to Message 4801.  

Ageless wrote:
Not necessarily. What you have to add to that is that Kathryn is using on-board graphics on her laptop, not an external AGP or PCIe video card with lots of DDR3 memory, like you do.

Even I am using my on-board video chip at this moment, as my card has two blown capacitors. I\'m in the process of replacing them, see if that fixes it.

The one thing that the graphics application at Einstein should do though is use less CPU cycles. So that\'s not a BOINC bug, but an application bug. :-)

I\'ll test again somewhere today, as I have fixed my video card. Took the damaged capacitors off and soldered new ones on. So instead of paying over 100 euro for a new card, I paid 3 euro for the parts plus a bus ticket to Breda to get the parts and it took about 1.5 hours of my time to fix it.

It\'s holding itself up under Oblivion 1.204, with everything set to High, while Painkiller plays along nicely again, so I think I fixed my card. :-)

Will now test what it does with the Einstein graphics under this BOINC.
Aha... totally different situation. All CPU cycles go to the computation thread, not the graphics thread. Which seems to show one needs a separate graphics card for BOINC 6 screen savers and graphics.
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Message 4878 - Posted: 29 Jan 2008, 20:38:42 UTC - in response to Message 4877.  


Will now test what it does with the Einstein graphics under this BOINC.
Aha... totally different situation. All CPU cycles go to the computation thread, not the graphics thread. Which seems to show one needs a separate graphics card for BOINC 6 screen savers and graphics.


Appropriate discussion for another forum, but the next testing would need to be what different IGPs are capable of. If the two of you had lower end solutions, what would a mid-range IGP do? Would it still be plagued with the problem? Also, what about a hybrid (\"turbocache\") card?
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