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Message boards : Wish list : Dump CreditNew

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Profile Steve Hawker*
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Message 20601 - Posted: 17 Nov 2015, 22:52:04 UTC

As the title says.

It's great this project is alive once more and with OSX support to boot. Encouraging to hear you are considering badges - please dont bother with the rubbish RAC badges the BOINC server provides. No-one cares about those and they do NOT keep people crunching.

Apart from credit milestone badges, the single best thing you can do is to dump CreditNew. This sorry excuse for a credit system has destroyed projects in the past and you dont want that.

Use a fixed rate or a variable rate but dump CreditNew. If you don't you'll find all the credit chasers will have left. You can argue "but science!" yet the credit chasers wont hear because they are gone. Unfortunately this group tends to have the biggest collections of cores, so you'll be losing a ton of processing power.

The Lattice Project had CreditNew and took much too long to replace it. They dont have any crunchers now, so their results dont justify the expense. That could end up with their university pulling the plug. And you dont want that either.

Dump CreditNew and it will be the best day for the life of the project.

Profile Ageless
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Message 20603 - Posted: 18 Nov 2015, 23:02:57 UTC - in response to Message 20601.
Last modified: 18 Nov 2015, 23:03:14 UTC

Of course, what we can also try to do is fix CreditNew. One of the people who knows how the code works and where it is going wrong is already in contact with Marius over this. Perhaps it's fixable. Wouldn't that be a treat?

Because when it can be fixed, that would mean all projects can benefit, with all giving out comparable credit and then you don't need to have to give out more fixed credits than the next project, just so to make sure that the volunteers with their computers stay with your project.
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Jord.

MindCrime
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Message 20680 - Posted: 4 Jan 2016, 9:23:30 UTC - in response to Message 20601.
Last modified: 4 Jan 2016, 9:32:50 UTC

Any follow up on this?

I believe the project now requires more than the typical new to boinc or casual boinc user has, or has enabled.

I watched Marius' talk on Docker. He breezes over how Vbox can be had with BOINC, while many crunchers don't even have virtualization capable machines, also those with it disabled in BIOS. Also many people don't choose the vbox download as it greatly increases the download/install size. Theirs only about 4 active projects that use it directly.

That being said, if you give people a reason to look past this small hurdle of making sure vbox works on their machine/platform you could remove the CreditNew system and bring far more users, hosts, science to this project.

In the end their are the lots of dedicated crunchers that will crunch no matter the credit, it's just a question if anyone wants to do it. Like Marius said in his talk many times, He's a physicist not a programmer, so if anyone could set things in motion for the alternative we'd all appreciate.

For reference my last ~15 valid (all consecutive) WUs which were using 3threads set via app_config.xml (as i write this I'm running 4 threads per to compare). The credit given for the last 15 WUs ranges from 34-45 credit. Run time averages around 900 seconds, and cpu time around ~2400sec

This means that a machine running a 3 threaded version of this app would generate about 1422 credit per day. If thread usage is directly proportional to the credit produced, you're looking at sub 500 credit per day per core. That's about as bad as it gets compared to anything other than NCI projects.

BTW i really enjoyed the talk Marius gave at DockerCON, and I appreciate the project sharing it, keep it coming.

Phil
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Message 20682 - Posted: 4 Jan 2016, 15:58:31 UTC - in response to Message 20601.


Use a fixed rate or a variable rate but dump CreditNew...

Dump CreditNew and it will be the best day for the life of the project.

Of course.
Dole out tens or hundreds of kilocredits per job (like certain other BOINC projects) and attract thousands of new punters.
Nobody will care that running this project imposes severe penalties on their machine, after all its only a matter of time before some Cosmo Eruptor USB is invented and the only limit is the size power supply for an external BOINCY Port Thing.

Profile Marius
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Message 20684 - Posted: 4 Jan 2016, 16:51:05 UTC - in response to Message 20680.
Last modified: 4 Jan 2016, 16:55:27 UTC

MindCrime, thanks for the message. When I switched to CreditNew along with all the other updates a few months ago it was largely because I myself had not really thought deeply about credits, and figured "whatever the BOINC dev's have come up with must be good enough", so I went with it. As of just the last couple weeks credits is something I've been thinking about, and unfortunately I think I'm starting to share everyone's dissatisfaction with CreditNew. I don't have much more to say right now, other than to confirm that improving the credit system is solidly on the "Wish List" (i.e. my TODO list) right now.

I'll try to post back here in a bit with a little more detailed thoughts about the credit system.

Profile Bryan
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Message 20717 - Posted: 11 Jan 2016, 14:43:32 UTC

I don't want to beat a dead horse but I typically try to avoid projects running Credit New. When the new app was announced I ran Cosmo and was earning fairly good credits. I moved on after adding 2M credits to my account. I returned today and find that I'm getting about 1/3 - 1/2 the credits using the same 144 threads with the machines setup identically to the way they were last month. That is somewhat frustrating.

Profile Skivelitis2
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Message 21337 - Posted: 11 Mar 2017, 9:34:23 UTC

Looks like CreditNew and no badges are permanent fixtures here. A pity. When I first started BOINCing roughly 10 years ago this was one of my favorite projects. Despite the occasional chatter, neither of these conditions seems likely to ever change. I beg to be proven wrong....
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Message boards : Wish list : Dump CreditNew