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Message 8269 - Posted: 29 Apr 2009, 22:31:28 UTC
Last modified: 29 Apr 2009, 22:33:17 UTC

I received 5.000 credit from the cosmology project, but I haven't crunched this project in the last months.
so I refuse these credit
I don't want to be paid for a work I haven't done

in my opinion, your decision to give 5000 credit to each partecipant, has been NOT fair with other BOINC projects and I think that decisions like this might undermine the reliability of the whole boinc community.

I would be glad to see my credit manually decreased
thank you very much

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Message 8270 - Posted: 30 Apr 2009, 0:44:29 UTC - in response to Message 8269.  
Last modified: 30 Apr 2009, 0:44:54 UTC

Calling upon the "I asked first" rule I respectfully request any and all refused credit to be transferred to my account. Thanks much.
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Message 8275 - Posted: 30 Apr 2009, 2:38:15 UTC - in response to Message 8270.  
Last modified: 30 Apr 2009, 2:39:07 UTC

Calling upon the "I asked first" rule I respectfully request any and all refused credit to be transferred to my account. Thanks much.

Since I'm second,I'll split it with you 50% - 50% !!! ;-P
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Message 8277 - Posted: 30 Apr 2009, 4:43:48 UTC - in response to Message 8269.  

I received 5.000 credit from the cosmology project, but I haven't crunched this project in the last months.
so I refuse these credit
I don't want to be paid for a work I haven't done

in my opinion, your decision to give 5000 credit to each partecipant, has been NOT fair with other BOINC projects and I think that decisions like this might undermine the reliability of the whole boinc community.

I would be glad to see my credit manually decreased
thank you very much

Ducati 749

But just think, another 500,000 and you could have acquired a Desmosedici! ;)

-jim


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Message 8278 - Posted: 30 Apr 2009, 4:52:46 UTC - in response to Message 8275.  

Calling upon the "I asked first" rule I respectfully request any and all refused credit to be transferred to my account. Thanks much.

Since I'm second,I'll split it with you 50% - 50% !!! ;-P

The "I asked first" rule disallows "calling shotgun". :)
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Message 8281 - Posted: 30 Apr 2009, 6:21:55 UTC

Let's hope - this is DB error only. I created a parallel thread, targeted to ERROR and I hope, the project will read.
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Message 8286 - Posted: 30 Apr 2009, 13:02:08 UTC - in response to Message 8281.  

Let's hope - this is DB error only. I created a parallel thread, targeted to ERROR and I hope, the project will read.


no, it was not an error
cosmology gave 5.000 credit to pay the users because of a long server downtime in the past weeks, which caused many tasks to pass the deadline
I'm sorry for my awful english, hope you can understand
I don't agree with this decision because they gave too much credit to someone (me and you) and too less to other partecipants (who could crunch more than 5000 per day..). moreover, I think it is not fair with the other projects, as I wrote in the first post

But just think, another 500,000 and you could have acquired a Desmosedici! ;)

LOL :D
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Message 8288 - Posted: 1 May 2009, 8:14:36 UTC

Well I'm a recently returning participant that was trying to rejoin during the 2.15 checksum issue and following instructions remained on other projects until the announcement of the fix (through the release of 2.16)

I have since since downloaded a half dozen workunits (and just uploaded with hours to spare) the last in that batch. I am pleased that the deadline for 2.16 workunits has been extended to 15 days.

but the 5000 bonus credits (which I received for being recently active) seems a bit excessive given I have not contributed to the projects scientific effort during the server reliability fluctuations of recent months.

I understand the reasoning behind it as a thanks for sticking through the recent difficulties. I appreciate the deadline extension and so will probably crunch a few more units but I do not feel I deserve the 5,000 credits.
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Message 8289 - Posted: 1 May 2009, 12:15:28 UTC

I lost a good amount of credits during the whole "Cosmo troubled times", so I gladly accept this gift. Anyway, in some parts of this world it it's considered very rude to refuse a gift ^^
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Message 8290 - Posted: 1 May 2009, 19:49:59 UTC

still waiting for an answer..

is there any admin around?
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Message 8291 - Posted: 2 May 2009, 10:28:56 UTC
Last modified: 2 May 2009, 10:31:22 UTC

A couple of people joined the project in the off chance they might get the 5000 bonus, sad to say, they did. Whether or not the bonus was justified, I think it could have been handled better.
Wave upon wave of demented avengers march cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream.
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Message 8293 - Posted: 2 May 2009, 18:07:47 UTC - in response to Message 8291.  
Last modified: 2 May 2009, 18:13:44 UTC

A couple of people joined the project in the off chance they might get the 5000 bonus, sad to say, they did. Whether or not the bonus was justified, I think it could have been handled better.


Yeah, it could've not been done at all. I mentioned that every time something like this has been done in the past, something went wrong...

So, now everyone is 5000 "richer", but problems still remain. I decided to give it another go here, and 2 out of 3 tasks that the scheduler provided to me are download errors. The other task has two other systems before me that reported "error while computing" and 1 person who detached.
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Message 8294 - Posted: 2 May 2009, 18:32:35 UTC
Last modified: 2 May 2009, 18:33:35 UTC


Wave upon wave of demented avengers march cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream.
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Message 8296 - Posted: 2 May 2009, 19:20:46 UTC

Isnt this project still Beta?

Every serious BOINCer knows what that means: There can be issues/problems! And sometimes - oO - there are!

*rolleyes*

I refuse the "gift" also - to me its not a gift. Its more like a "slap in the face" of those people that alpha-test and beta-test at other projects because they are serious about it. Furthermore, its my opinion that the credit level was still very high here anyway. Wasnt it 50 credits per wu? (havent crunched for quite some time) And I cant remember any serious problems here.

I mean its normal BOINC-behaviour: Depending on project, your machine does well or not... Nobody expects extra credits just because something might gone wrong...

Well, serious crunchers dont expect extra credits...

Just my 2cents...

PS: The 5k credits really might have been meant as a gift, and I dont want to sound too harsh, but its my opinion as a serious cruncher...


My NEW BOINC-Site

Why people joined BOINC Synergy...
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Message 8301 - Posted: 3 May 2009, 3:12:31 UTC - in response to Message 8270.  

Calling upon the "I asked first" rule I respectfully request any and all refused credit to be transferred to my account. Thanks much.

I also request all the free credit given to the newly 6000 joined accounts to be transferred to my account also. That 30M should just about make up for the credit I missed out at MilkyWay for not having an ATI card.
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Message 8302 - Posted: 3 May 2009, 4:59:51 UTC - in response to Message 8296.  
Last modified: 3 May 2009, 5:27:11 UTC

Isnt this project still Beta?

Every serious BOINCer knows what that means: There can be issues/problems! And sometimes - oO - there are!

*rolleyes*

I refuse the "gift" also - to me its not a gift. Its more like a "slap in the face" of those people that alpha-test and beta-test at other projects because they are serious about it. Furthermore, its my opinion that the credit level was still very high here anyway. Wasnt it 50 credits per wu? (havent crunched for quite some time) And I cant remember any serious problems here.


From what I see at the stat sites, you haven't been involved here in about 11 months. This means you're hardly in any position to state that there are or are not issues here.

The server had recently crashed due to a power outage. After that, the project admins had to go through several weeks of steps to get the project up and partially running. After that the tasks were either failing on download or the science application that the project provided ended up trashing the tasks. After that, the project requested that anyone still having a working copy of the science application from before the server crash send the application to them. After that, mysteriously the project released a new science application and tasks that took 2-3 times as long as before the crash, yet retained the same credit for them. Not only that, but the tasks are 2-3 times more resource intensive.

Go ahead and download some tasks and run them, and you'll see the high memory consumption and long runtime. You'll also see that the 50 credits per task of a year ago doesn't even come close to what the claimed credit is based on the outdated benchmark request methodology.


Well, serious crunchers dont expect extra credits...

Just my 2cents...

PS: The 5k credits really might have been meant as a gift, and I dont want to sound too harsh, but its my opinion as a serious cruncher...


I asked the project to do NOTHING in regards giving out free credit. They were bound and determined to do it anyway. Every time they have done this in the past, it has backfired. This is no exception. Instead they should've paid a bit of a premium on the claimed credit levels and dealt with fixing the problems (download errors, input files not found, high resource requirements).
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Message 8309 - Posted: 3 May 2009, 18:43:41 UTC - in response to Message 8302.  
Last modified: 3 May 2009, 18:45:58 UTC


From what I see at the stat sites, you haven't been involved here in about 11 months. This means you're hardly in any position to state that there are or are not issues here.

The server had recently crashed due to a power outage. After that, the project admins had to go through several weeks of steps to get the project up and partially running. After that the tasks were either failing on download or the science application that the project provided ended up trashing the tasks. After that, the project requested that anyone still having a working copy of the science application from before the server crash send the application to them. After that, mysteriously the project released a new science application and tasks that took 2-3 times as long as before the crash, yet retained the same credit for them. Not only that, but the tasks are 2-3 times more resource intensive.

Go ahead and download some tasks and run them, and you'll see the high memory consumption and long runtime. You'll also see that the 50 credits per task of a year ago doesn't even come close to what the claimed credit is based on the outdated benchmark request methodology.



Okay, downloaded 4 wus and running them together atm... one uses 400MB RAM, the other 3 100MB... No problems so far...

_______________

Yes, I havent crunched Cosmo for 11months. From what I see from this site (http://www.cosmologyathome.org/show_user.php?userid=4503), you're attached to 5 projects... Maybe thats why you think that the problems here are exceptional or really bad compared to other projects... (if I understood you correctly, english isnt my native language)

Well, not worse than the problems at many of the 50+ projects I attached to... Especially when projects appear, I attach & test & post at the boards to help fixing the problems - doing this, I'm one of many (ATAs ;) )...

Noone there asks for a compensation, the only thing we ask in return is to feel that the admins are doing something about it, taking us crunchers serious...

As I said: It might have really been meant as a gift, but its unnecessary, imho... Fixing the problems as fast as possible is the best gift to me as a volunteer cruncher...

Cheers!

__________

O-kay, 4 Cosmos at the same time arent working with other projects in memory and other windows apps running... RAM is all used up, so I better run them one after we other... Small ressource share might help, or a 64bit OS with 8GB of RAM... :D
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Message 8310 - Posted: 3 May 2009, 18:57:47 UTC - in response to Message 8309.  


Okay, downloaded 4 wus and running them together atm... one uses 400MB RAM, the other 3 100MB... No problems so far...


Memory usage is less in the beginning, but uses more towards the end. The task I have processing now is using 662,164K per Task Manager. It is at 81.23% done (approx), has taken 13 hours and 35 minutes to get there, and is estimating 3 hours and 18 minutes to completion. Based on prior tasks, it will really take another 6-7 hours.


Yes, I havent crunched Cosmo for 11months. From what I see from this site (http://www.cosmologyathome.org/show_user.php?userid=4503), you're attached to 5 projects... Maybe thats why you think that the problems here are exceptional or really bad compared to other projects... (if I understood you correctly, english isnt my native language)


When you haven't spent a bit of time with the project in a long time, it is not your place to try to dictate what goes on or make the judgement that the action taken was not warranted without at least getting informed through personal experience as to what the current situation is really like.

If you have difficulty translating that, you might ask someone who speaks English to translate to German. I don't speak German at all, so I can't translate it to German for you.



Well, not worse than the problems at many of the 50+ projects I attached to... Especially when projects appear, I attach & test & post at the boards to help fixing the problems - doing this, I'm one of many (ATAs ;) )...

Noone there asks for a compensation, the only thing we ask in return is to feel that the admins are doing something about it, taking us crunchers serious...


You seem to have credits from those projects, so apparently whether you ask for it or not, you do get compensated.

Look, the bottom line is the project admin made a mistake in the SQL script which granted credit to everyone in this project instead of only people who were active, like it was supposed to be. I personally had asked the admin not to even do this, but they were bound and determined to do it anyway. Hopefully they will not attempt the same thing in the future.
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Message 8311 - Posted: 3 May 2009, 19:02:32 UTC - in response to Message 8309.  
Last modified: 3 May 2009, 19:08:08 UTC


O-kay, 4 Cosmos at the same time arent working with other projects in memory and other windows apps running... RAM is all used up, so I better run them one after we other... Small ressource share might help, or a 64bit OS with 8GB of RAM... :D


Yes, so now like I said, you're starting to see that there is something wrong here... :-)

What you're experiencing is what people who have been here over the past month have seen. There were reports of systems being slowed down because of all of the resource usage. Some of those tasks took 20 or more hours to complete and were awarded only 120 credits. That equates to 6 cr/hr and less.

As I said, you need to spend time here first before making the conclusion you made. Same thing for Metalius, the other person who is raising a huge stink, even posting over in some places in Russian about a "boycott".

Those of us who have been here for a while know that even if the 5000 credits somehow "attracted users to crunch", most of them would quickly leave once they saw the resource requirements and the extremely slow response times from the project when there are problems.

Bottom line is that it was a mistake. I'd prefer that the project not try to manipulate the credits again by taking away 5000 from people. Just let it go. It's not worth getting all upset about.
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Message 8313 - Posted: 3 May 2009, 20:51:00 UTC - in response to Message 8311.  

I'm not trying to dictate anything, it's not my intention to "stink" (I know it was applied to somebody else), it was "imo/imho/it's my opinion"

Why do you take offense? No need to!

As you said yourself: "It's not worth getting all upset about." Agreed!

When I used to crunch here, there werent any serious problems I encountered. Yes, there is something wrong here NOW. But as I said I encounter (more) serious problems at other projects too...

We both agree that there shouldnt have been a gift whatsoever...

I also agree that the credits shouldnt be manipulated again... I agree that it'd be an additional mistake...

I dont agree with the slight accusation of not knowing whats going on here: I might havent encountered problems here for quite some time, but having encountered many other problems (some of them even VERY SIMILAR :!:) at many other projects, i feel to have the right to express my opinion saying that this "gift" was a "mistake" or at least unnecessary.

Cheers!

PS: To project admins: http://lists.ssl.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/boinc_projects ;) Helps a lot!

It is possible to limit tasks depending on available RAM and CPU cores... With my settings, I shouldnt get more than 2 WUs at the same time. It is possible to set this up! Might be some work, but better than spending time by granting extra credits! Cheers!
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